Episode 4
Joanne Mckay

Transcript

Georgie: Welcome to ‘With Love from Bougainvillea’, a podcast hosted by your very own local students today, being Georgie and Eva. Hi, I'm Georgie, and I'm running music as well as interviewing our guests.
Zara: Hi, I'm Zara, and I'm also interviewing our guests.
Eva: Hi, I'm Eva, and I do all the creative works for our covers as well as interviewing our guests.
Shyan: Hi, I'm Shyan and I'm in charge of all the tech edits and our website.
Zara: The aim of this podcast, ‘With Love from Bougainvillea’, is to capture the lives and wisdom of the residents here at the Bougainvillea Retirement Village. As young people, this is an incredible opportunity to connect with and learn from other older members of the community. Our goal is to provide advice for a younger audience in an accessible and entertaining manner. Creating a podcast means that for the average working student, they can listen and simultaneously juggle their busy schedule.
Eva: Today we are joined by a tech genius, someone who truly understands the value of vulnerability, someone who cherishes and perseveres in her relationships, and finally, someone who leads with a strong heart.
Joanne: My name is Joanne Mackay, and I was born in 1950.
Eva: Whereabouts were you born? Were you born here or-
Joanne: Yes. In Royal North Shore Hospital, so just down the road.
Georgie: Oh, wow. So local. That's awesome.
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah.
Georgie: Were you always in Australia or-
Joanne: Yes. Uh, no. Um, in 1973, I went to live in England and I stayed there till 1999 and I came home.
Georgie: Was that for a job or-
Joanne: Initially for a job and then, uh, I got married, had some children, then decided to come home.
Georgie: Did they finish school here or was it over?
Joanne: Yes. Here.
Georgie: Aaah, I see.
Joanne: They were 14 and 12 when they came here.
Georgie: Oh, nice.
Joanne: So they were born in England and then came here with me when I came home.
Georgie: Was it a local school that they went to?
Joanne: Abbotsleigh.
Georgie: Oh nice. So names that we know for once.
Joanne: Yes, yes.
Georgie: We've heard stories from a lot of the different worlds we've had to like piece it together ourselves. That's fabulous. How about your childhood? Was there anyone that you looked up to especially, or-
Joanne: My parents.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: Uh, my father, particularly my father, was a very outgoing person.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: And, uh, he was always full of life and told great stories and did all that sort of thing. So I would say he was a role model to me. Um, I grew up in West Pymble.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: Uh, went to Hornsby girls high school and um, you know, just enjoyed life. Um, you know, he, my father taught me to grab life with both hands, and I have always done that.
Eva: That's really nice. Yeah. So would you, would you say to uh, like, younger people to, like, any advice like similar to that?
Joanne: Just embrace it. Don't stand back, you know, if you think you want to do something, do it because you'll regret it later.
Eva: Okay.
Joanne: And, and really pushing yourself to do something. If anything, I would say life is like a river. You're always swimming. The harder the swim, the better person you become.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: So I've always lived that kind of philosophy and it's done me very well.
Georgie: That's very nice. I like that analogy.
Eva: Yeah, it's beautiful.
Georgie: Like a salmon, up a river.
Joanne: except sometimes you think you're going to drown…but then you don't.
Eva: Were there any moments in your life like that you could pick out that felt like that?
Joanne: Yes. Um, I'm very fortunate; I had a kidney transplant.
Georgie: Oh wow.
Joanne: Uh, and on the night I'd had the kidney transplant, I thought. I wasn't gonna make it because when you have it, you have to be very careful. The body doesn't reject the kidney. So for the moment you are sort of not sure, but I'll tell you a very cute story. When you get the kidney, they get you to name it.
Georgie and Eva: Oh, Aw.
Joanne: Uh, 'cause then you can relate to it. It is part of your body. And your body won't start to reject. It's very important. Your brain says, I really want this inside me. So you talk to this thing. So, um. On the first night I'd had the transplant, it was quite not sure whether I'd reject or not. So I'd say that was quite a frightening moment for me. And again, I had to think of my father's thing. I'm in a river and I can make it to the other side. And I did.
Eva: Wow.
Georgie: I actually didn't know that about kidney transplants. That's-
Joanne: Yeah. And the other interesting fact is I have three kidneys, so when you get the transplant, they leave the two that aren't working anymore inside you and add a third.
Eva: Wow.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: I didn't not know that at all.
Joanne: No, I didn’t either.
Georgie: That’s crazy.
Eva: Are there, are there any like stick out moments to you? Did you have any siblings that like-
Joanne: Yes, I have a brother. Um, a stick out moment actually was when I went to England. So when I decided to go, I thought about what would I do to get there, because in 1973, when I went there, travel was much more different. You know, you couldn't sort of get there quickly. So I decided to fly to America by myself and then I got a Greyhound bus all the way across America. So that was really a great adventure 'cause I had never left home.
Georgie: How long did that take?
Joanne: Uh, it took about three weeks.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: So I went to lots of cities. I literally got a map and pinned the cities I wanted to go to, and then I travelled. You know, stopping every night. Uh, and uh, and that was really exciting because my parents had said to me, now make sure you sit at the front of the bus because you'll be safe. And after a few days, I thought, this is boring. So I moved to the back of the bus where it was much more fun. Yeah, it was good.
Georgie: Cool people at the back?
Joanne: Yeah, totally.
Joanne: They're only little old ladies at the front.
Georgie: Aw.
Joanne: So, but they were great. You know, they'd say, oh, would you like some lunch? Or, I've brought a two, and you know. It was all good.
Georgie: That's so sweet.
Joanne: And it was nice to meet Americans without it all being like a tour bus.
So I was on like a travel bus that normal people got. So it was great.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. 
Georgie: Did you make any friends like your, like stayed in contact with or are still in contact with?
Joanne: No.
Georgie: So just like travel friends?
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. I would meet people who were doing a similar thing. So you know, if I got off at one city, they might be on the bus the next time.
Georgie: Oh.
Joanne: Yeah it was great fun.
Georgie: That's so nice.
Joanne: Yeah. 
Eva: And were there any moments that were really unexpected in your life that you weren't prepared for?
Joanne: Um. No. Um, I guess actually back to the kidney transplant, that was a bit of an amazing thing that happened to me. Um, I had my daughter li-, one of my daughters live in Lismore that is up at the top in the northern rivers, and I had gone there for Christmas, this is four years ago. And on Christmas night, uh, my phone rang and it said, no caller ID. Now, most people would not pick that phone up if it said no caller ID, but I did. And it was the hospital saying they had a kidney for me.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: And so I had eight hours to get to Sydney, uh, and this is Christmas night, so there were no flights, no nothing. And the hospital said, you've gotta make it because the kidney is only viable for 24 hours and you've gotta get here. So both of my daughters drove all the way down. It was eight hour car journey. And we had made up our minds, if the police stopped us, we would say, look, we’re on our away to the hospital. And the hospital would ring all the time saying, where are you? Where are you? Uh, and so that was very unexpected because if I had not answered that phone, I would not have had the kidney.
Georgie: Wow.
Eva: Wow.
Georgie: It's such luck. Oh my goodness.
Joanne: Yeah. Total. Total meant to be.
Georgie: That's insane. Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah. And the other good thing is. My dad, my box, my birthday is Boxing Day.
Georgie: Oh really?
Joanne: And so I got the kidney on my birthday.
Georgie: Wow.
Eva: Wow. That's like a birthday present!
Joanne: Total. And I got life from it.
Georgie: Wow.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: That's incredible.
Joanne: Ah. It was all, you know, deja vu of being at the right place at the right time, which was unexpected because I had not answered it. I would not have got it.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: Do you believe in like the butterfly effect or like fate or anything?
Joanne: Yeah, totally. I believe my life took a direction. In completely all. I decided to go to England.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: I stayed there, had a great career, decided to come back. Both my girls came with me and have done really, really well here. So I think that my life was completely directed by circumstance. You know, by the way, that whoever you believe in directed a path for me.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: How about your work life? You mentioned you had a really good career. What was that like?
Joanne: Yes, I did. Um, I was an IT trainer to adults. Uh, and I've been in the business since 1974. So pre-mouse, pre-windows, pre-all that. So you had to use typing to direct the computer. Uh, and also originally when I first started, we had like little magnetic cards that you fed into the computer and uh, then it would capture the words. And then you would put it in another machine that would print it. And I, one of the highlights of my work career was when we first started using a mouse and everybody said, oh, this’ll never work. And of course you all use a touch pad now, but do you remember what a mouse looked like?
Georgie and Eva: Yeah hahaha.
Joanne: And, uh, so originally to be there was something so amazing that you would put in your hand and it would completely direct you.
Georgie: Crazy.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: I know. And now I look back and you feel funny if you don't have something in your hand or use your finger.
Georgie: True. I mean, personally, I still use it mouse on my computer, like my home computer.
Joanne: Do you? On the laptop?
Georgie: On my laptop, on my laptop I use the touch pad. Is that it? And then on my home computer, I have a mouse.
Joanne: I saw a very interesting interview once. It would've been the early seventies. In the middle seventies with Bill Gates.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: You know Bill Gates, is it?
Eva: Yes.
Joanne: And he said that we would all carry something around in our hand that would transfer money that we would talk to people on and would be our total method of communication.
Eva: Oh, so he knew what he was doing the whole time.
Georgie: Crazy.
Joanne: He knew what that was going to be, our mobile phone.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: So imagine this is back in the day before, we never had a ca-. Everyone went, how stupid. Why would we do that? You know, we've got checkbooks and why would we not go to a bank and why would we not pick up a telephone? But now look at what you do.
Georgie: Crazy.
Joanne: You can't go anywhere without that in your hand, can you?
Eva: Mm hehe.
Georgie: Yeah, I do need it for quite a few things
Eva: I’ve actually left mine in Victoria, umm- hahaha.
Georgie: Hahaha. Hello?
Eva: It's getting posted.
Joanne: Yeah, because you can't live without it. You think of what we do and it completely controls our lives. In a good way, but its our tool.
Georgie: Good and bad, I reckon.
Joanne: Yeah.
Eva: Do you think people are over reliant on it?
Joanne: Yes, I do.
Eva: Do you have any advice in the way of IT for young people?
Joanne: No, just purely that use it, not controlling, you know. You are in charge of it. It's not in charge of you. I say to people, everybody is afraid. Well, a lot of people my age are afraid of it. You are more intelligent than it is.
Eva: Mm.
Joanne: Remember that Because people go, oh, I can't do that. Or I'm afraid it'll do. No it won't. It'll only do what you tell it to do. So I think that fear plays a big factor when you are using something that's new to you. So you just have to think, I have a brain. Although it does, yours is smarter than it is.
Georgie: I think that's really interesting in terms of the things that we're hearing nowadays with AI and-
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: -how it's-
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: -artificial intelligence is taking over a lot of people's like jobs now.
Joanne: Mm-hmm.
Georgie: Oh and schools are using it too. Like we use it at school.
Joanne: I know.
Georgie: And obviously maybe you couldn't fathom that.
Joanne: No, totally.
Georgie: Um, when you were younger.
Joanne: Yeah. We used the chalkboard and when I first started school we used a pen in an ink well.
Georgie: Oh yeah. Fountain pens? Or different?
Joanne: No, before that, like a nip, uh, like a piece of wood-
Georgie: Not the feathers, the quills.
Georgie and Eva: Hahaha.
Joanne: No, no. Not that old.
Georgie: I'm kidding.
Joanne. Um, and you had like a little- in my desk, we would have desks that all joined together. So when you stood up, the seat went like that and then that would be against the, um, desk behind you. And we had a little ink well, in the desk that held the ink. And you put this nip in there and you wrote.
Georgie: That's crazy.
Joanne: I was telling my grandson - we also learned to write with what's called a slip card. So it was a piece of paper with black lines that were perpendicular and you had to write using those lines. And he went, granny, I've never heard of it. And I had to explain to him. And the other day he went to a history museum; they had the desks I sat on.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: Which really quite, he goes, oh granny, did you sit on-
Georgie and Eva: Hahaha.
Joanne: Yes I did. So it's funny when your past catches up to you in the present.
Georgie: Crazy.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: You know.
Georgie: It must be quite like funny seeing things you like used in school.
Joanne: Yeah. He thinks it's really old.
Georgie: Hahaha.
Joanne: And to me it just was two days ago and and he thinks that, oh my God, that was so old. And I go-
Georgie: To think that that's gonna be us in years.
Joanne: Yeah. It will be, you can't stop it.
Georgie: You guys are marrying ai? You can't marry ai! That's weird!
Joanne: You don't know.
Georgie: Oh goodness. That's such a funny thought. To think that like our stuff that we use now is gonna be outdated. Are people still gonna write on paper?
Joanne: Yeah maybe 10, 15 years. Oh paper will go.
Georgie: I love writing on paper.
Joanne: Because it environmentally bad.
Georgie: Yeah, that is true.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: I use quite a lot of pieces of paper.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly.
Georgie: See, I'm not rich enough for an iPad.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: I use my paper and my pen.
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah.
Georgie: What was your life like in terms of your family? You mentioned you had, I had daughters.
Joanne: I have two daughters. And I have two grandsons. So one girl has two children and they are, he's going to be 10 next week and the other one is five.
Georgie: That's lovely.
Joanne: They're great. And I have another daughter, and she lives in Lismore, as I explained to you, is up near the Queensland border.
Georgie: Mm, yeah yeah, eight hours drive away.
Joanne: Yeah. And she's a very interesting, well, both my girls are very interesting, but my eldest, uh, runs a paparazzi company.
Georgie: Does she?
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: That's crazy.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: So journalist?
Eva: Wow.
Joanne: Um, she, uh, they take the photographs that go with the story, so, um, you know, Chris Hemsworth doing something.
Georgie: That must be a very brutal job.
Joanne: It is, it's very hard.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: It's all consuming.
Georgie: Crazy.
Joanne: But it's very interesting.
Georgie: Has she had any like run-ins with-
Joanne: Ah, yes.
Georgie: Anyone? Like-
Joanne: No, just really people who don't like having their photograph taken.
Georgie and Eva: Yeah hahaha.
Joanne: So uh.
Georgie: And that's all Australian and not-
Joanne: Yeah, yeah, no. Um, yeah, mainly Australian. They sell overseas, but, um.
Georgie: Right.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: So yeah.
Georgie: Are you like very family orientated?
Joanne: Yes.
Georgie: Is that something that's important to you?
Joanne: Uh, yes. Um, I've been a single parents since the girls were six and four.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: So we are very much a team.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: So I guess, and my two girls, they're very much, uh, together. Um, and, uh, you know, they're very good to me and hopefully I'm very good to them. So, yeah, we, I would say we are very. Um, yeah, a team. That would be a good word I would describe us.
Georgie: Was it a co-parenting situation or?
Joanne: Yes. Uh, their father, we lived in England, uh, and, um. Their father was very much a part of their life. To give you an example, if they couldn't do something with the homework, they would ring him. If I didn't know the answer, they would ring him and he would help them. And um, we used to share speech day, sports day also. They had support. Again, he was part of the team. Um, I think that's a good analogy of a family, that you all work together for the benefit of everybody, not just the girls, but me too. They were very, very good to me and their dad.
Eva: Mm.
Joanne: So, but now he lives in Jakarta and so it's nice and close, um, to see them.  
Eva: So…
Georgie: No, no, no.
Eva: So, um, do you have any advice about how to make the team work?
Joanne: Communication.
Eva: Okay.
Joanne: That would be the best word I would describe it. Talk to each other, and that also builds trust. Um, I think as a parent, it's very good that you have the trust of your child. Um, then you, you always know that they know I'm there for them and I know they're there for me.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Georgie: On, on that communication note, I know communication is like a very broad term. Would you like give any advice for specific ways of communicating or like?
Joanne: Talking.
Georgie: Do you prefer like waiting a period of time and then talking, or do you talk straight up?
Joanne: Uh, I think it's good to know that you are there for the your children. A little example is that I never worked on a Friday and so I would always be at the gate as such to meet my girls and then we would go for afternoon tea and that way they could talk to me and I would talk to them and it was became a routine for them. And now my daughter who has the boys, she does that.
Georgie: Oh, that's lovely.
Joanne: So I think it's kind of nice that something I set up, they now do themselves. So I would say like, um, social setting for communication is also good, rather than going into the bedroom and saying, oh, what did you do today? When that's quite daunting for the person. Whereas if they think, oh, I've got that time up and talk to mom about such and such, I think that's important.
Eva: Yes.
Georgie: That's actually really lovely. I haven't quite thought of that.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: And like having- I think routine is really important as well.
Joanne: Very good. And also to know that you are there and I know they're there.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: So that's good too.
Reassurance is very important.
Georgie: Do you think that that like brought you closer as a family?
Joanne: Yes.
Georgie: Through that shared time?
Joanne: Yes, I do. Because they  knew we had a bridge as such between my daughters and me.
Georgie: Did that sustain through like the whole of their schooling?
Joanne: Yes.
Georgie: Up until you're 12?
Joanne: Yes.
Eva: Wow.
Georgie: That would, that would be lovely for us.
Joanne: And now as, um, I always remember the day before my daughter did the HSC, I took her out for afternoon tea again. And I just said to her, no matter what happens, it is not a problem. And I will not anyway judge you. And she said- and she remembers now I did that. And she said, and also said, we're not gonna talk about it. We'll purely have afternoon tea, have a fun time and I'll never ask you again.
Georgie: Oh, that’s lovely
Joanne: And so,
Georgie: That’s so reassuring.
Joanne: I think because people put pressure on exam results.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: And that's silly. It's just a mark. It will never affect you ever again.
Eva: Yeah I think it's really important to communicate that. Yeah.
Georgie: I love that. It's so like reassuring to hear. Like I think it, since we're year 11 students, I think it's getting a bit more serious.
Joanne: Well, it's going to come to you, and then everyone say, oh, have you studied, have you done this? Have you done that?
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: Only you can do it.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: No one else can help you, but you know that whoever is behind you is waiting. And that's also really important.
Georgie: I think something that we've been talking about maybe a bit as  year group through like different conversations or definitely some conversations that I've been a part of, is that recognizing that different families have different commitments.
Joanne: Yes.
Georgie: And that some people have more time to like have with their family versus some have more time to study and so maybe a mark doesn't purely reflect, um, your intelligence or potential, maybe it represents how much time you have to dedicate to study.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Because I think something that I definitely recognized recently was that some people have to take care of their siblings. Some people have to cook dinner for their family and have outside commitments, whether it's part of their culture or their family.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: So I thought that was really interesting to make that connection. Like I have a privilege of having like quite a bit of time to study, I think.  
Eva: Mm, and there are a lot of expectations coming both sides. Like people are expecting you to spend a lot of time studying-
Joanne: Yeah.
Eva: -then your family's expecting you to-
Joanne: Mm-hmm.
Eva: -spend a lot of time with your family.
Georgie: Mmm. Of course.
Eva: Do you have any advice, like balancing things while you’re-
Joanne: Just do what's in your heart, I think. You know, if you feel it's right, then it's going to be good. And I think that's a two-way street. Um, like as you're saying, your parent might come home tired and not want to listen to you, not because they don't love you, but because they're exhausted.
Eva: Yes.
Joanne: And the same with you. You might've been studying for hours and then someone says, oh, did you clean that up? And you think, oh, I can't handle that.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: So I think it's a two way street.
Eva: Personally, I’ve been in that situation, I was like, I remember that.
Joanne: I that I think your parent has to be understanding of you. And you have to be understanding of the parent.
Georgie: That's lovely. I really like that .
Joanne: You asked me, said, was there any event that I had felt was really important in my life? I had the privilege, um, of, um, when I lived in England, my husband was involved in, uh, the Falklands war. Do you know what that is?
Georgie: No.
Joanne: It was a war where the British went to, um - it was in the late seventies - to defend an island called the Falklands War against in invasion by the Argentinians. Heard of Margaret Thatcher?
Eva: Yes.
Joanne: Okay. She led the country against that.
Georgie: Oh, wow.
Joanne: So after the English saved the Falklands, there was a big, uh, what do you call it? Thanksgiving service in St. Paul's Cathedral. And because of my husband's involvement, we were invited. And it's quite something - in the, in the congregation was the queen, Elizabeth.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: Diana, Charles, and all the royal family. And to stand and sing God Save the Queen with her in your sight was really quite something.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: So that had a big impact on my life because it just made me think, gosh, I'm very privileged in my life to be part of something like that. You know.
Georgie: That's so-
Joanne: And even if you're not a royalist or you know, I in the back then to see them, but more importantly, to sing a song or an anthem with the person standing right in front of you was very emotive. You know?
Eva: Was that because you could feel you're actually giving the message to her?
Joanne: Yeah, no more out of a loyalty, you know, because we, at school, when I went to school, we all sang Gods Save the Queen all the time. Mm. You don't do it now, but, um. You know, and there would be pictures of the Queen everywhere and all. So actually to see her like over here and to sing the song was amazing. So, I mean, that had big impact on my life.
Eva: In what way, uh did she-
Joanne: Purely because I felt I had gone to a place where, I don't know, very privileged and I can't explain it. It just was a very big moment in my life.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: How about like the music part of it? You said singing was very, um, like emotive for you, do you think?
Joanne: When I was at that? Or-
Georgie: Yeah.
Joanne: Oh, because it was so rich. You're in St. Paul Cathedral, which is a, um-
Georgie: Acoustics must be great.
Joanne: Oh, great. And they had like a choir singing. I mean, it was hard not to cry. Because, you know, there were beautiful hymns and, uh, it was very traditional. That would be a good word to describe it.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: Um, and, uh, yeah, it was good. That's, and again, as I say, a highlight. And when she died I was sort of thinking, gosh, that was, when I look back and think what a big moment it was. And it was more to get an invitation to something like this, it would be like going to a royal wedding or something like that.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: And so it’s very special.
Georgie: Do you remember like what you wore? I'm a very, I'm a fashion person.
Joanne: No, I can't remember that. No.
Eva: Are there any particular interests that you had in your life? Hobbies or just things, sort of-
Joanne: I like going to movies and now of course I stream, I have about five channels.
Georgie: Do you?
Joanne: Yeah. And uh.
Georgie: We need  movie recs.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Do you have any movie  recommendations?
Joanne: No. My favourite movie actually was quite revolutionary; It's called, ‘Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?’ You ever heard of it?
Georgie: No.
Eva: No.
Joanne:  Okay. It, um, starred two really great actors, uh, a woman called Katharine Hepburn and a man called Spencer Tracy. And it's a story of, uh, a girl who goes home to meet her parents and introduce her husband, and the husband is a black man. So it's a story in the seventies of accepting a black man into your family. The black man was an actor called Sidney Poitier, who was the first black man ever to win an Oscar.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: He's not alive anymore, but this movie is very, uh, really tugs at your, uh, because what do you do if someone comes into your home who you don't think is part of your family immediately.
Georgie: Yeah.
Joanne: So they have to learn to accept him. Uh, and so that's my favourite movie.
Georgie: That's awesome actually.
Joanne:  And it's called Get Who's Coming to Dinner?
Georgie: Where can you find it?
Joanne: Oh, stream it. I've seen it, yeah.
Georgie: Which channel?
Joanne: I can't tell.
Eva: I’ll look it up.
Joanne: Start, start at Apple TV or something. Or even Google it. If you Google, guess who's coming to dinner? And say, ‘where can I watch it?’, it'll tell you.
Eva: Okay.
Georgie: Okay.
Joanne: A very good movie.
Georgie: That's definitely, 'cause I've been looking, I've been going back to like Disney, like core Disney, Disney Princess ones recently. I've needed a good movie recommendation.
Eva: I actually just watched one in the holidays after ages. Yeah.
Georgie: I love my Disney movies. Yeah. That’s so fabulous. How about any pets? Did you ever have any, like-
Joanne: We had a cat. Um, uh, when my girls, when we came to live back here, they wanted a dog, but I said, well, I'll be working and you are going to school. Who's gonna walk the dog?
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: And they went, oh, alright. So how about we go with a cat? Because cats are easy. And so we had a cat, Walter.
Georgie: That’s lovely.
Joanne: Yeah.
Eva: Aww.
Georgie: That's lovely.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: Actually, no. That's my daughter's cat. His name was Harvey.
Georgie: Hahaha oh.
Joanne: The big white rabbit? No, nevermind. Uh, so yeah, and we had him for quite a while.
Georgie: What kind of cat?
Joanne: Oh, I don't know. Um, we got him at the refuge centre.
Georgie: Oh, lovely.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Is there anything, do you think, in your older life that you face that, like, you'd warn, warn’s a bit strong of a word, but like you'd tell younger people to like watch out for, maybe like loss of connection or-
Joanne: Yeah. Work hard at relationships.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: Um, it's a two-way street. Um, as I said, I've lived all over the world and I still have the girls I went to school with.
Georgie: Really?
Joanne: Yeah.
Eva: Wow.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: That's a very, very long relationship.
Eva:  Wow. Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah. It was since 1966.
Georgie: That's insane.
Joanne: Uh, yeah. No, earlier 1963, I met them.
Georgie: Do you still catch up with them?
Joanne: Yeah, all the time.
Georgie: That's lovely. Oh my goodness.
Eva: Wow.
Joanne: Yeah, yeah. And the husbands all get on quite well too, which is rather nice. They didn't know each other until we all got married. But yeah.
Georgie: I love that.
Joanne: We used to have lunch together, always at school. Uh, we would sit behind one of the buildings and have lunch and yeah. And now we are still friends, but you have to work at it, you know, like if I don't hear from one of them or they don't hear from me, they call me or, you know, we, we try and get together, maybe twice a year.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: 'Cause it's hard with family and all that kind of stuff, but yeah.
Eva: So do you try to keep every, um, relationship that you find for a long time, like?
Joanne: Yes. All over the world. I've got friends that I knew really well in England, uh, and I've been home now nearly 25. And they’re still my friends.
Eva: Wow. Okay.
Georgie: That's so lovely.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Do you have any tips on like how to sustain those relationships? 'cause I think we've been talking recently in school about do you find it hard to sustain like long-term friendships versus short-term friendships?
Joanne: Yeah. You, you again must communicate with people. You know, even if you pick a phone up or drop a note or email has made life very easy.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne:  You just, or Messenger one of those. You just make sure you keep in touch.
Georgie: Um, I was gonna note about phone, I think. Phones and like calling people, um, is my preferred form of communication. I love, love, love calling people. Hearing their voice is very different to me, but I think it's very much normalized that, um, we message people these days, like a lot of texting.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: And then we run into problems like tone over text is what we call it, where you can't tell people's tone over text. So you don't know if they mean that in a mean way or if they mean that in a nice way.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Or if they mean that in a particular tone, if they're upset or not upset, like you can never really tell.
And I think I've run into a few problems with that and I'm not sure about you.
Eva: Yeah, I think it does cause problems. I, and yeah, I think I just prefer calling because then you sort of can, you know, hear their personality come out a bit more as well.
Georgie: Yeah, I agree.
Joanne: And you're reaching out more.
Georgie and Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: It's very easy just to send a text to someone or-
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: -send an email.
Georgie:  They might forget about it.
Joanne: Yeah.  Whereas when you make the effort to call, that's really important.
Georgie: Well, they don't have to pick up and they call you back when you can.
Joanne: No, that's right.
Georgie: I very much prefer calling. I'm a calling cow.
Joanne: Well, it's nice to, and also the plans are so good these days that you can make calls, you know, almost unlimited without worrying about the price.
Georgie: Yeah.
Joanne: You know. Yeah, and I think that's good. Communication is really important in my life. Uh, I would say it's one of the keystones of how I've run my life is to make sure people know what I need, what I want, and how I feel about them.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: So they're very important things.
Eva: I really struggle when, um, friends move far away. I really struggle to keeping in contact with them. Um, and I was just wondering how you, how you go about like, putting effort into those relationships when it can be more difficult to like keep in touch with them when, when you're both changing.
Joanne: I, I make a point of doing it even if I write it in my diary, on my phone: call so and so, message such and such, um, because then it makes me do it. And if I haven't contacted the person maybe for three or four weeks, I make myself do it.
Eva: Okay.
Joanne: Um, even if I send a message saying, are you free if I call at such and such a time? Then as you say, I get the personal contact. But it's very hard if you ring someone and you think, oh, am I invading what they're doing, or?
Whereas if I pre-organized it. That makes life much easier. They go, no, I'm busy. Can we call tomorrow? Then that way, you know, you've reached out to the person and you're doing it at a convenient time to them because they might be in a meeting. I mean, your friends might be in a class or doing something, and that way you know that they're happy to talk to you and you can relax and not thinking, oh, am I disturbing them? Or something like that.
Georgie: Yeah
Eva: Yeah. Okay.
Georgie: You mentioned before that, um, communication was one of your core values.
Joanne: Mm-hmm.
Georgie: Is there any other core value that you think you'd like to share?
Joanne: Telling people how you feel about them.
Georgie: Mm-hmm. I think that's really important. Like trans- transparency, maybe?
Joanne: No, like showing emotion.
Georgie: Oh yeah.
Joanne: So like I tell my girls all the time, I love them. I think that's really important, especially in something like an adversity. So when the world towers the- you know, in New York?
Georgie: Twin towers?
Joanne: Yes. When they fell down, that was a terrible time. 'cause everyone thought, my goodness. So I made sure I talked to both my daughters and I told 'em I love them. Because I think that's terribly important if you don't know what's gonna happen the next day.
Georgie and Eva: Mm.
Joanne: And then you can know that you have told that person how you feel. And I think that's the biggest gift you can give someone, you know?
Georgie: That's beautiful.
Joanne: Haha thanks.
Georgie: I think vulnerability is really an underappreciated like strength.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Because when you show vulnerability, then you can get it back. And I think that's-
Joanne: It's a two-way street. If you say to someone, I really love you, then they go, I love you too. And that makes you feel fantastic.
Georgie: So you get the benefits of it too.
Joanne: Yeah, yeah it's a two way.
Georgie: We've been, um, doing a lot of stuff for leadership recently and a lot of what we've been talking about is if you can lead and show vulnerability, then people can be vulnerable with you back and you get a united group.
Eva: They said it in an assembly, that courage is actually, you know,
Eva and Georgie: being vulnerable.
Georgie: Yeah. Which I think as young people and having like bigger egos and like trying to put up walls and you go through all these highs of emotions. Tend to shut people out. And so I think like a reminder of being vulnerable and sharing your feelings is really important actually.
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. People don't do that. A lot of, a friend of mine once told me to always say thank you or yes. So if you say, oh, I'd like to do this for you, you go, oh, no, no, I'm fine. She said, never do that. Just say, thank you. I'd love that. Or It's not convenient for me at the moment, but could we do it again another time? Whereas, then the person feels wanted. Whereas, if you automatically brush them off, that's not nice because they're going, oh, I won't do that again. Do you know what I mean?
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: So people don't offer unless they mean it. Usually. Some people just do it 'cause that's the way they are.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: But most times the person is meaning what they're doing. And so you'd be gracious and say to them, thank you.
Eva: Okay.
Georgie: That's lovely. Sorry  I keep on saying that, but I really do mean it.
Eva: I, I really do agree with that. I try to, I try to-
Georgie: I'm taking all this in. This is lovely.
Joanne: Good.
Georgie: I'm learning so much. I really do love the one about vulnerability. That one's my favourite.
Joanne: Yeah. Because everyone has what are the scars?
Eva: Mm.
Joanne: And no one is perfect, so therefore you've gotta show people that you aren't, but you’re willing to learn or suit what they need.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne:  Um, you know, I think it's important.
Georgie: Shows that you’re human, I guess.
Joanne: Yeah. No one, you know, everyone has their secrets. You know, I hate to say that, but everybody does.
Georgie: Mm.
Joanne: No matter how old you are. I'm sure my grandchild, if you asked him, you know, did you put that away in the locker? He’d go yes, of course I did granny, but he didn't.
Georgie and Eva: Haha.
Joanne: You know?
Georgie: Are there any scars that you'd say that, uh, maybe bigger to you or that you remember more vividly?
Joanne: No, not really. Um, no. I've had a great life. You know, I can look back and think. No, I've done really well in my life.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: I put two wonderful women into the world. Um, I've had, I've done everything almost I've wanted to do. Um, and, you know, I, I think that you can't achieve more than that.
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: I've been loved and I've love people and that's important.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Georgie: So Sweet.
Joanne: Thank you.
Georgie: Do you have any, like, mindfulness things that you do?
Joanne: Um, I like to observe, so, um, I think you learn from watching because, um, you just do. You pick up things and, uh, um, you know, think it's important.
Eva: Yeah. Like listening rather than always-
Joanne: Yeah.
Eva: -always trying to get your point.
Joanne: That's right.
Eva: Like also taking, taking in.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: Yeah. No, I agree.
Joanne: Yeah.
Georgie: I think that clashes in a few classrooms of ours. When you have, everyone has such great ideas and you wanna put them all together, but no one really listens to each other.
Joanne: No.
Georgie: Sometimes, yeah, sometimes it doesn't happen, but sometimes it does.
Joanne: You should wait your turn. Learn to be patient.
Georgie: Haha I will. I will.
Joanne: Patience is only something that comes in later life. When you are your age, you want to do it now. You know, I can't wait. Give it to me. Give it to me. Whereas we know that if you wait, then all good things will come.
Georgie: How about uni? Did you go to uni? Did you study anything-
Joanne: No. No.  It's really funny. When I was my age, right?
Georgie: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: When I was 16, my father said to me, well, you either can be a nurse, a teacher, or um, a secretary because women will not have a career. He told me that was a waste of time.
Georgie: Wow.
Eva: Wow.
Joanne: I know. And no HECS. Right? So you had to pay for university or get a scholarship. So he said to me, well that's- just learn to type. You'll be fine. So I went to TAFE and did a secretarial course.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: But it meant that when I finally went into IT, I was really, really good 'cause I could touch type.
Georgie: Oh yeah.
Joanne: And that was a big asset. When I was doing demonstrating and teaching because I could, you know, if anything, my writing has become terrible 'cause I can think faster with my fingers.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Joanne: So, um, when I want to communicate, I do this and I can type it really fast.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: Yeah.
Joanne:  Whereas when I write. My hands hate that because I can't do it as fast as what I can.  You know, I'm, I can do thumbs, I can do all that kind of stuff.
Georgie: ‘Cause your thoughts think faster than what you can write.
Joanne:  Yeah, exactly. 'Cause I get frustrated when I'm trying to write when I can do it so much faster. Um, so regarding, I didn't go to university, but um, uh, I went to TAFE.
Georgie: TAFE counts.
Joanne: Yeah. I got a certificate four in, um, what they call private secretary diploma.
Georgie: Wow.
Joanne: But that was years ago.
Eva: I think my grandma did a similar thing.
Joanne: Oh don't say that.
Georgie: Hehehe.
Joanne:  Yeah, we did also did a thing. Ever heard of shorthand?
Eva: Yes, I was about to mention it actually.
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. I did that.
Eva: And yeah, she always shows us how much master she can write.
Joanne: Yes and it’s the same because when you’ve got a communication tool, you use it because you don't want to be bored doing all this sort of stuff with your fingers, you know, writing, uh, yeah. Shorthand was like little symbols. So as you spoke, we would write these little symbols down, -
Georgie: Oh.
Joanne: -rather than writing what you were saying and the symbols people could read. And, um, parliament was always recorded by shorthand. It was called Hansard.
Eva: Wow.
Georgie: Cool.
Joanne: Uh, and, um, yeah.
Georgie: Hm hm I was gonna say we need that for our final exams.
Eva: Yeah haha.
Joanne: Oh yeah. If you can read it.
Georgie: I know.
Joanne: So you’d have to have someone scribe your notes and then they'd be all right. If you could just turn a microphone on and record it that way.
Georgie: I wish. But our final exams are all handwritten.
Joanne: Oh, handwritten, aren't they?
Georgie: Yeah.
Eva: Yep.
Georgie: I think that they might change to computer.
Joanne: Oh, I'm sure they'll do online. Within 10 years time they would totally do online.
Georgie: But as of right now, it's all-
Joanne: Handwritten.
Georgie: Yeah.
Eva: Yeah.
Georgie: Because they don't have like the security around it for people not to like use it for-
Joanne: Yeah, yeah plagiarize.
Georgie: Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly.
Georgie: So it's all head written, as for now, and my hand hurts every time.
Joanne: Oh yeah. As I said, that's why my writing’s so bad, because I can do this so much faster.
Georgie: Mm.
Eva: Yeah.
Joanne: You know.
Georgie: Is there anything else you, like wanna across?
Joanne: Yeah, live every day as it comes. Right, because you, if you don't grab life, then you'll always regret it. I don't regret anything in my life. And so I think that's really important.
Georgie: Thank you so, so much for coming in with us.
Joanne: Oh look, thank you girls. It's been very interesting.
Georgie: It's been lovely to-
Joanne: And uh,
Eva: Thank you so much for sharing everything.
Joanne: Oh, my pleasure. Absolute pleasure.
Georgie: And that's all for us today. Thank you so, so much for listening, and make sure to check out our website where you can find the transcript and all of our episodes to come.
Eva: Quick shout out to our wonderful team. Shyan for all of our editing, Zara for all her organization behind the scenes and my co-host for today, Georgie,
Georgie and Eva: With Love from Bougainvillea, mwah!